In an interview with Poder360, the minister of Micro and Small Business compares aid to incentives given to agribusiness and exports
The Minister of Entrepreneurship, Microenterprise and Small Businesses (PSB), 61 years old, said that the government should create subsidies to compensate for any reduction in working hours, especially for smaller businesspeople. He compared the idea with incentive programs given to the country’s agribusiness and export sectors.
“It is inevitable because all the countries in the world that are more developed or that have already gone through the Brazilian stage a little, especially in Europe, this issue of official working time was being reduced so that people could have more time to enjoy life and also to generate more employment. And there is only one way to do this, and that is for the government to cover this part of this plus. It is not assumed that the businessman will take away his resources and find another employee to be able to place”, said França in an interview with Poder360.
Debate about it has occupied social media over the past week. On Wednesday (November 13, 2024), that of the deputy (Psol-SP), who proposes 3 days off, the required number of signatures (171) to be filed. It will be analyzed by the CCJ (Constitution and Justice Commission) of the Chamber, possibly presented by (PT-MG), almost the same, which has been in progress since 2019.
França states that the issue worries businesspeople because it is a difficult issue to oppose, but it requires a solution.
“You push people into a difficult decision. The person will say: ‘I’m going to be against the person having extra time off’, who’s going to be against that? But for this to happen, someone has to find the money to give so that person can pay or put someone else in their place. I think this is a second discussion that needs to be had later”, these.
Any change to labor rules must be made through a constitutional amendment. Therefore, the minister believes that the discussion will be long in Congress, giving time for the government and the business sector to discuss solutions.
In the interview, França stated that if the government needs to cut spending, there is no way for members of the government to take a contrary position.
“I think that, somehow, the market is much more concerned about the future than about this year’s budget. If you need to make a cut, you have to make a cut. Do what? But that doesn’t mean the cut is forever. The cut is so you can reestablish credibility and come back,” these.
The minister defended the vice-president (PSB) remaining in office in a possible attempt to re-elect the president (PT) in 2026.
“I think that, of course, vice is not a position that you can determine, but I think that this harmony between the two and the closeness that they created is very difficult to undo a ticket like that. You would have to do a double carp twist to get to something like that,” these.
Watch the full interview, recorded at the Poder360 studio in Brasília, on November 13 (1h01min09):
Read the main excerpts from the interview:
Poder360 – Subsidy for reducing working hours
Márcio França – “I’m saying here from an inevitable point of view because all the countries in the world that are more developed or that have already gone through the Brazilian stage a little, especially in Europe, this issue of official work time was being reduced so that people could have more time to enjoy your life and also to generate more jobs, obviously. And there is only one way to do this, it is for the government to cover this part of this plus, so, if some way is done to make a reduction, it is not assumed that the businessman will take from his resources and find another employee to be able to to place. Especially because, in the country, small entrepreneurs make up 95% of Brazil’s CNPJs. These people don’t have a break so they have some space, not even sometimes for themselves. So, the government will increasingly have to act to create mechanisms to generate employment, as we do, for example, with agriculture. […] I think we have to have, for example, less taxes, which would compensate for this situation. If the person has less tax, there is more for them. She would also like to have more. It would be nice if she had Saturday off, but someone has to cover that space and that space has to be paid for with resources that, indirectly, end up belonging to all of us.”
Expense cut
“The government has to have one mind. The person who speaks for the government is the President of the Republic. If he thinks he has to cut it, he will cut it. And, obviously, it will cut wherever it needs to cut. Nobody cuts because they like it. What you can do is raise more in cases that sometimes you don’t raise. For example, the Minister of Finance, Fernando Haddad, published an ordinance from the PGFN (Attorney General of the National Treasury), creating a mega discount that goes up to 70% for everyone who is micro, MEI and small companies, for those who owe up to R$25 thousand reais. Pay 1% and you are already in compliance. And if you are in compliance, you are entitled to the access line for the new credits that we are providing. So, for example, in this case we have R$300 billion. It’s a stimulus. If it is only going to pay 30%, yes, but 30% of R$300 billion is R$90 billion. This year’s credit problem is over. I think that, somehow, the market is much more concerned about the future than about this year’s budget. If you need to make a cut, you have to make a cut. Do what? But that doesn’t mean the cut is forever. The cut is so you can reestablish credibility and come back.”
“Uberization”
“This is the global controversy. Should we provide absolute protection, in the format we have at work, or should we go down this path of a certain autonomy of schedules, but with some risks because these people don’t have the protections that others have? When I was very young, my father said that anyone who didn’t have a work permit was called destitute. It was those who did not even have the right to public health. So, these were important advances, but it is undeniable that reality is taking over. We think that the person wants protection, which they themselves don’t want. […] I don’t know if the CLT [deve acabar]because there is some protection system all over the world. And the CLT was very important. We still have 38 million people in CLT in Brazil. You have to remember that this also gives a certain guarantee. […] But today, 60% of Brazilians asked said they would like to become an entrepreneur. […] We did a survey to ask why people do business. And the 1st answer is not for survival, it’s not for money. ‘I want to be important to the world’. The person thinks they will be important to the world. If she’s going to be, she’s not going to be, not everyone is going to become a great… But it’s the perception she has.”
PSB’s relationship with the Lula government
“The president is very experienced. He has to work with Parliament’s numerical logic. And we had an important bench reduction and, at the same time, we nominated the vice-president of the Republic. So, you have to understand that you have to reconcile it with the number that is there in Parliament. However, importance is not only made by indicating names or positions. It is much more important depending on the degree of influence you exert. For example, the presence of the vice president [Geraldo] Alckmin is a relevant presence in the government. Because he, although he is very discreet, I perceive a very strong proximity to President Lula. A harmony between the two. A confidence in being able to travel, in being able to go out, in being able, like now, to represent you in more important places too, which you only get when you are close.”
Political compositions for 2026
“It is clear that the PT is a great party. So, the tendency is to have the main functions of a government. From now on, eyes will also begin to turn to the elections for governor, senator and the president’s own succession. So it will, of course, adapt to this new reality. Because there are a number of ministries that were adequate to have a majority pass in Congress. Now there will also come a certain time when there will be that famous ‘either pray or leave the church’. This means that parties that are in government must signal whether they will be with the president, with us or with the government. I clearly notice that there are two forces in the country that were formed back there, which is much more than [Jair] Bolsonaro, who is now somewhat out of the game due to the legal situation, are the political forces of the federal government and the central power here, in relation to power in São Paulo, which involves the governor and city hall. These two forces also formed a relevant force and I think these 2 sides will be in different positions.”
Geraldo Alckmin as Lula’s deputy
“He’s the most left-wing guy I’ve met. I don’t know anyone with more socialist behavior than him. An extremely simple man, very simple, without any type of luxury, who is very dedicated to the public life he has, without assets, but traditionally he is considered more to the right. […] We managed to show the way, which is to bring together divergent situations, but which have, let’s say, common sense. See, no one can think it’s common sense for me to argue with you and shoot you in the head. This cannot be common sense. Or throw a stone because you don’t agree with me. […] I don’t think he can run for governor of São Paulo anymore. He was governor 4 times. So, he made a contribution to São Paulo. […] I think that, of course, vice is not a position that you can determine, but I think that this harmony between the two and the closeness that they created is very difficult to undo a ticket like that. You would have to do a double carp twist to get to something like that.”
Lula’s successor still undefined
“He has 2 years if he wants to make a successor, naturally he has time to do it. I remember that way back when he invented it, he got Dilma out of the idea [Rousseff]it wasn’t like that, 2 years before, she was the person who attracted attention in the government. Today, it is clear that the president has a personal sympathy for the [Fernando] Haddad [ministro da Fazenda]. He likes Haddad. Haddad is, in fact, a very suitable man, very suitable. It’s comparable to Alckmin, of the few I’ve met. Haddad had a moment of courage that Lula greatly admires. When Lula was in prison and no one wanted to leave, Haddad was willing to become a candidate. And, honestly, it had a surprising, very positive performance. We talk a lot today about the issue of the Northeast. Haddad had, in the Northeast, more votes than Lula. It’s an interesting thing. So, there are circumstances. There is a Minister of the Civil House who is generally the most relevant minister, which is Minister Rui [Costa]who is a former governor of Bahia, is a strong man, has experience. The performance itself in education and now the result in Fortaleza, with Camilo [Santana, ministro da Educação]who is also an experienced man, was governor, after all. There are several frames. This is largely the perception of those who lead. If he feels that there is something that could happen, and he indicates it, it is clear that he has his strength, and that is what counts.”
Lula’s age
“From a physical point of view, it is the best moment I have seen of Lula. I lived with him in other governments, I have never seen him as physically willing as he is now. In fact, much thinner, physically fit. And, from an intellectual point of view, there is no one comparable to him from the point of view of global repercussion. The day I went to China, the president of China said Lula is the person in the world he most admires. It’s a strong deal for the president of China to say this. Today, I feel like this, if he wants to be a candidate, and if he can be a candidate, it’s difficult for you to think about Lula losing an election with the government. If without the government he won. I say, he is a lion. And a lion, when it gets up, naturally drops 3, 4 just on its way out. He is very articulate in politics, has advance perception. It’s natural for everyone to discuss this [idade do presidente]. […] Everything is a bit of the narrative. On one side you have age, on the other side you have the weight of experience, which is very relevant, having the experience of knowing.”
