One of Lula’s closest politicians (), the senator (PT-BA) minimizes the possible electoral impacts of and says that this issue “will not be a variable” to define a candidacy in 2026. “It will be his personal decision”, he states , in an interview with Sheet.
Although he is a firm supporter of renewal in his party, the Bahian politician maintains Lula’s candidacy as plan A. “In today’s situation, he is the candidate.”
Leader of the government in , the parliamentarian also assesses that the distrust expressed by investors in discussions about cost containment “has a flavor of political struggle”. He adds that he does not see fiscal irresponsibility on the part of the president and considers that this is not an absolute concept.
“It has to be a balance between spending or investments and people’s well-being. I don’t dream of Argentina. Argentina, at this moment, could be the financiers’ dream.”
Despite the discourse of responsibility and , There is a perception that the government has difficulty balancing political priorities and controlling expenses to contain the expansion of debt. What path will be taken in the next two years?
The is very big. I think there has to be a balance between spending or investments and people’s well-being. I don’t dream about Argentina. Argentina, at this moment, could be a financier’s dream. Violent increase in poverty and homeless people. This, for me, is not the ideal country. ‘Oh, what beautiful finances, oh, what suffering people.’
We found the country with a completely depleted social side. Whether more could be invested gradually to recover from this is a criticism that can be made. But it is the president’s central commitment. I do not think under any circumstances that there is fiscal irresponsibility. We have improved the recipe. But the only speech I hear here is salute to so-called fiscal responsibility. I think that no concept is absolute, exclusive.
Mr. says that fiscal responsibility cannot naturally be the government’s only command, but the question is: given the president’s directives, is the increase in debt something that should be naturalized to achieve these objectives?
I will repeat that the debt continues at the previous government’s standard vis-à-vis GDP. Now, we increase revenue and increase expenses. Brazil is growing. We had to contingency how much of the ? R$20 billion. The PAC is the president’s soul. For someone to say that this person has no fiscal responsibility when R$20 billion is cut in one of his central programs…
The opposition leader said [na aprovação do pacote] ‘I think it’s shy, but it’s on the right path’. Well, if you’re on the right path, the concepts aren’t left behind. The volume, who has to graduate, is the president. And he will have the consequences. If he makes a mistake, he could end up not doing so well in 2026.
Mr. Are you convinced that this moment of turbulence in the dollar and interest rates has a political bias?
It is one of the components of the moment. I’m not saying that’s all it is. I’m saying that there is a flavor to it, which is political struggle. It would be naive of me to think that things are just based on theoretical, economic convictions. There’s this and, if the guy can remove a chip, he will.
What kind of difficulties could this create for the government? The issue of inflation, specifically.
I will continue saying that today it has a much stronger ideological component than it has had in previous years. But there is the issue of prosperity which, in my opinion, continues to be the driving element, people’s well-being. We also need to look at the following: Lula was president for the first time in 2003. Since then, it’s been 22 years. Many people who are voting now were born in this territory, with many of the things that were innovative. We need to find a narrative that shows that we are a locomotive moving forward and not living in the past.
There is also criticism that there is a lack of young staff in the PT.
I think the party is going through a renewal problem. I’m a renovation obsessive, I did it in Bahia.
What assessment did you make? What do you do about the president’s health issue, which raised the debate about 2026?
So you can see how the political struggle enters into everything. He, for 79 years, is a very well maintained guy. He runs, plays football, he’s better than me, super fit. However, because he had a problem that anyone can have, and due to bad luck the fall caused what it did, then the stock market goes up, the stock market goes down. For the love of God, people. It even has a cruelty to it. Many people must have made money from his illness.
I don’t think that on the health side it’s the problem. The decision will be very personal for him, whether he wants to offer himself for another four years. He is a political animal. I would tell you: health for me will definitely not be a decision variable.
What will it be?
It will be his personal decision.
I imagine political circumstance is also a variable.
If the political circumstances are not good, he will probably have more impetus to come to the election, and not the other way around. He might even say: we’re swimming, 70%, 60% assessment [positiva]it’s time to renew. If you ask: what do you think? I think he will be.
70% approval seems a long way off.
People are looking for, I don’t know, a somewhat fanatical leadership. There is disbelief with politics in general, not with this government. I talked about a possibility, but I also think that no one else, in this court where we are, will have 70% in bigger disputes. The government’s rating could rise. If it’s at 50%, I think he can take a risk. But, in my opinion, honestly, with today’s situation, he is the candidate.
Why has the government had difficulty improving assessment?
There is a lack of a more qualified narrative of what we are doing; This is the feeling of many people. And it’s even a certain agony for the president, because he thinks that people are not given full knowledge of what is being done in a positive way, that is, the famous narrative. As a political group, we have not yet found an outlet for this.
Should this assessment lead the president to do something?
This is already explicit. Even the narrative of this was bad.
But how big will this be? ?
The last time I spoke to the president, he said: ‘I’m not going to reform, I’m going to make changes’. There will be a basic adjustment, there may be changes within the same party, depending on each party’s performance, someone from party X may leave and someone from party Y may enter, if they understand that they need to accommodate. In theory, all so-called base parties are represented. If any new party seeks to enter the government base, it will obviously have to be accommodated. Where will the accommodation be made? For better or for worse, it is always easier to settle with those at home.
From PT, in this case.
There is more ease at home than with friends who are participating in the walk. , which is leaving, . I saw in the newspapers that he intends to have a conversation with both of them. There are two players [jogadores] important, have their leaders. I’m not saying that there will be this, I’m saying that these are elements that can move the board. He must be reflecting.
There are four senator ministers. Do you want them to return to the Senate in this reform?
I don’t think there is a general rule. I don’t want to impose my opinion, but I think that whoever goes there and asks for a vote to be a senator should do so. Now, this decision is strictly the president’s. The variable is this: performance, political need and organization of the base. It may be that one or two senators return.
X-RAY | Jacques Wagner, 73
Senator for the PT, he is the leader of the government in the Senate and a friend of Lula. He was Minister of Labor and Institutional Relations in the Lula government, Minister of Defense and Civil Affairs in the Dilma Rousseff government, and governor of Bahia.
