The Minister of Finance, says that Brazil is today “in a much better situation than we have been” in relation to public accounts, and that intellectual honesty lacks on the part of those who do not recognize the government’s effort in fiscal adjustment.
“The market provided for 0.8% of GDP deficit, and we performed 0.1%, close to the center of the goal, which was zero, but away from the ceiling,” he says.
He believes that after the rise of the far right in Brazil and worldwide, it still influences, but does not determine the result of an election. And he says he believes he will recover popularity because the government has time to find the axis of a ‘communicational position’ to the elections.
Fiscal adjustment
It maintains a trajectory above the goal, and you already said that we will have to grow less by 2025 to hold prices. The forecast of 1.98%, made by the market, is no longer very low?
We are providing for greater growth of 2.5%. And the average growth of the Lula administration will be higher than the seven years of conservative governments that preceded us.
Still, isn’t it too little?
When we grow a lot, the press says we are growing above our possibilities. The editorials are recurring. Let’s not please.
We had ten years of primary deficit. The current opposition had seven years to make the fiscal adjustment and did not. It is curious that this is never remembered.
What differentiates Lula from predecessors is that for us, fiscal adjustment depends on more robust growth, important even to correct the distortions of our budget, our accounts.
And do you think they are getting it?
I don’t think: last year’s data shows that we are chasing the goal [fiscal] constantly.
BILLS
The Lord has six months ago. And that the measures taken so far were not enough to address the long -term structural problem.
And we did several readjustments after that interview. We did not do it anymore because Congress did not approve everything we forwarded.
Do you think it was done enough?
That word will never exist.
What I say is that, after that interview, I sent several measures to the National Congress. Most were approved, which allowed us to have a budget with fiscal balance to 2025.
The market provided for 0.8% of GDP deficit [em 2024]and we performed 0.1%, close to the center of the goal, which was zero, but far from the ceiling. What I told you, I fulfilled.
Are we not adopting band-aid theory? Sangria, that is, the deficit of the year, but in the long run it comes back, since the structural issues of the expense remain?
But several structural measures were taken, with constitutional changes. We update the minimum wage policy, adjust the policies of the allowance, Fundeb, to make it fit inside the framework. This was recognized by economists including critics to.
ORDER IN ACCOUNTS
PT leader Lindbergh Farias told the column that what had to be made of adjustment has already been done, and that the government will change the subject. Is that right?
It is very curious not to be recognized as a government that is putting order in the accounts.
We could have judicialized and pushed the cucumber of default to governors and precatory for 20 years. And we chose not to do it. We are acting with due diligence in the courts to eliminate tax risks of a judicial nature. The (STF) said that Congress has to respect the Fiscal Responsibility Law (in the context of action filed by the government), something unheard of.
If it weren’t for [decisão de adiar o fim da] Payroll exemption last year, which even benefited the media, we would have primary surplus last year.
Think a little before charging. Honestly, a little lack of intellectual honesty with the effort that the government is making
The same media that argues to correct public accounts also advocate their privileges. Ok, this is Brazil. But think a little before charging. Honestly, a little lack of intellectual honesty with the effort that the government is making.
We are in a better situation than we have been. And that this is a permanent work because it is also pedagogical, of consistency and resilience, to talk all the time with everyone not to get out of the way out. Which is to pursue this path [de ajuste nas contas públicas]regardless of election and who is in government.
We have to regain credibility, and this is being done. The three risk agencies recognize this. The IMF too. Interestingly, when a risk agency improves our credit grade, the press makes editorial criticizing the risk agency. It’s something private in Brazil, right?
POPULARITY
Lula is falling popularity even after the country grows 3.4% in 2024. Can’t an even smaller growth this year not do things, from the government’s point of view, to degrinos?
The governments of [presidente da França, Emmanuel] Macron e do [ex-presidente e candidato derrotado por Trump nos EUA, Joe] Biden had good economic indicators, and did not do well at the polls.
This correlation, therefore, is today more complex worldwide after the rise of the far right, which deals with misinformation, fake news, with the creation of sparks and fictional threats. With the manipulation of hearts and minds, she was able to get the United Kingdom out of the European Union.
It’s another world.
No one imagined that American democracy in the 21st century would live the challenge that it is going through. Advocacy universities and offices are being persecuted, there is an alignment of Big Techs with the financial market for an authoritarian project that can endanger democracy.
We are in a critical situation. The economy will no longer be the determining factor of an electoral result.
Now it is very difficult to imagine a lasting right project in the contemporary world. There will be a lot of resistance.
The governments of [presidente da França, Emmanuel] Macron e do [ex-presidente nos EUA Joe] Biden had good economic indicators, and did not do well at the polls. This correlation, therefore, is today more complex worldwide after the rise of the far right
What is your diagnosis about Lula’s fall of popularity?
The fall is not chronic. It is recent. I think the bump that occurred with the dollar in December, in the debates with the financial market, caused some apprehension.
There is a kind of chronic instability that is given, even by the international context, which is very challenging. We also have our household challenges. And the market reacts promptly to any and all sign. People are more at the skin to defend their heritage. Others speculate. It’s from the game.
Noise of pix
And the noise around Pix?
Interestingly the traditional press defended the government explaining that the measure had nothing to do with taxation, but that had little in the narrative war of social networks.
Their instrumentalization is more favorable to extremist groups. Under the cloak of freedom of expression, you speak any lie that comes to your head, impunity.
But I think [a causa da queda de popularidade de Lula] It is anterior.
Under the cloak of freedom of expression, you speak any lie that comes to your head, impunity.
Lula announced payroll loans for the worker who has a formal contract, and income tax exemption for those who earn up to $ 5,000. Is the government not working hard on CLT mode?
I received an order from President Lula to fulfill a campaign promise, which his predecessor did, he did not fulfill and no one charged.
Lula, with 50 years of public life, has the dignity to honor the word. We didn’t do this because of research. We had been working for a year in the proposal. When she stood, we sent to Congress.
For it, 140,000 people will pay more tax, and 10 million will stop paying.
Elections 2026
But why, after all, this voter bad mood with Lula?
Lula will arrive competitive in 2026. Is it an easy election? No. As the 2018 was not, as the 2022 was not.
An extreme right force emerged in Brazil, and she dialogues with the Brazilian authoritarian tradition. The integralism of the 1930s, which was our fascism, had two million supporters. We live later under a dictatorship [de 1964 a 1985].
Our democracy is very recent. And when an far right force emerges, it resists because it is based on our history.
An extreme right force emerged in Brazil, and she dialogues with the Brazilian authoritarian tradition
Is there no responsibility for the government itself?
The government is hitting wholesale. Now what we call communication, and that people often confuse marketing, is a challenge for all democratic governments. It is a problem of communicative positioning, not ideological positioning. Like you [governo] Do you translate what you are doing on a flight plan where people can see a wider horizon? From here to the election, we have time to find this axis.
