Judge Marcelo Bretas, by (National Council of Justice), recognized in an interview with Sheet episodes of recklessness in their conduct of.
The magistrate, however, evaluates as excessive the maximum penalty applied by the counselors. He says he sees political connotation in the decision, pointing out the influence of ministers of (Supreme Federal Court) and (Superior Court of Justice).
The CNJ considered that there was irregularity of Bretas in the decision to search for law firms, and interference in the election for governor of Rio de Janeiro 2018 against (PSD).
The judge recognized recklessness to intermediate a conversation between the lawyer and a prosecutor about the confession of businessman Fernando Cavendish before the conclusion of a denunciation agreement. He also said it should have been more discreet on social networks.
Bretas, however, said he did not see excess in his relationship with politicians and defended the measures he ordered in the operation and $ Quema S, against law firms from relatives of ministers and judges.
“I was bold. Because those who are in accordance with the law have nothing to fear. If the law covers me, if I am acting within the law, I have to be bold,” he said.
Like mr. Evaluates the decision of the CNJ?
Obviously, I disagree. He believed that this maximum punishment would not be applied. In my assessment, I had a 90% chance of not being punished. And the 10% chance I attributed to political issues or other questions.
Was the decision political?
The decision is political. The CNJ is made up of figures that are politically indicated. Even being an administrative decision, it can, as was the case, be delivered with poor proof.
I saw CNJ counselors mentioning in my trial that I posted photos at the gym, which I was famous, vain. This has nothing to do with the processes. I was retired by the so -called whole work. They came to a consensus, possibly with some other members of the most graduated judiciary, that I should leave the judiciary.
But there is no evidence [de irregularidades]. It is not only my words, but also of the Attorney General’s Office. The CNJ did not evaluate the tests. Who did it very well was PGR. It is very easy to see who is telling the truth. I ask the CNJ to make administrative processes public.
When you speak “more graduates”, mr. Do you speak of interference from ministers?
I can give an example. The minister said I was out of the judiciary and would certainly not return. So I believe he wasn’t cheering for me.
My performance, for good or for evil, assumed a great relief. This projected me nationally and internationally. That’s not what I sought, but it happened. This generated in some figures some discomfort.
The PGR indicated failures in two cases. Was it careful in conducting the Lava Jato?
In the issue of the audience scheduled before the first round of 2018, I disagree with PGR’s assessment that there was my fault. The judge cannot be linked to the electoral calendar. If the audience milestone, I can harm one. But if not Marco, I’m wanting to help another. This audience [do ex-secretário Alexandre Pinto, que acusou Eduardo Paes] It was marked by my secretary, who took care of the agenda. If it happened again, I would leave it to mark it later.
The second case was a. Nythalmar, a lawyer’s lawyer, enters my cabinet and asks to make the attorney call. It is an informal cabinet conversation. I was always very informal.
The MP [Ministério Público] said he should not have done, [que] It was reckless. Ok, I agree. But it should be remembered that we were at the beginning of the so -called award -winning allegations. I had no form. Looking back and talking how it should be done is very easy.
It was one, among quotes, charging, that it might not have been made. At this point, I think I was unhappy, reckless. There I should have been harsher. “No, this is not the judge’s subject. Get out of here.” But unfortunately, I ended up falling into this trap.
The doubt that hangs is if mr. .
What he got, besides [?
O.
Uma figura paralela. Um tema menor. O que mais?
diz que…
[Interrompe] Sérgio Cabral is a lie. , which was very sorry. At that moment I said, “Who is sorry returns.” He said, “I agree.” He accepted. Given the resources and: Mangaratiba Beach House, apartments in Leblon. All of this was sold quickly, and the money was returned to the purse.
Like mr. Have you seen the?
Mr. Cabral is a subject discredited by the many lies he said live. He said, he desisted, now it seems that he regretted it again. I prefer not to hit him. I would not like to go down at this level. While, which we still see today, steals the retirees, Lava Jato paid retirees who had not received for several months. We received flowers thanking.
Mr. think that [aprovação pública] Could this recklessness have favored?
A judge is not trained for this moment. The judge is not political. You can have, at some point, had a wavering and exposed me too much.
Minister Mauro Campbell said in his vote that “the true judge is not a demigod that displays his muscles.” Mr. Do you think it should have been more discreet on networks?
I was sentenced to compulsory retirement for my exposure, for my public relevance. It was a message to the other judges: to contain the image, to avoid as much as possible. It bothered a lot of people. Since it cannot claim that, they claimed what a criminal who has no credibility said, lawyer Nythalmar.
May I have exceeded myself? I think so. But only God knows what I went through in those moments, crisis with teenage children, I could not pay attention, problems at home, marital, difficulties because of the excess of work.
The other day I saw something in the press, judges, judges involved with sentence sales, and some are working. So, showing off, showing your muscles at the gym is more dangerous or more serious than selling sentences? I don’t think so. A Brazilian of common sense too.
But mr. He also published photos alongside politicians such as former governor Wilson Witzel. Was it correct?
Today I wouldn’t do it, but I don’t think I was wrong. [Witzel] He was a colleague of magistracy of several years. That photo was after the election on the day of inauguration. I do not consider it inadequate at all.
I also went to a service at the invitation of former President Jair Bolsonaro. There were two judges who were by other guest people who wanted to approach, create a connection with the president. What seems to you stranger? It has never been said in these other judges.
The problem was Marcelo Bretas. Not by my figure. [Era] By my bond to the Lava Jato. It was a very well done job, with robust tests. People confessed. Will say that mr. Has Sérgio Cabral been unfairly convicted when he publicly confessed that he was addicted to stealing money, in corruption? So what do these people have to clean the image a little? Speak ill of the judge.
Much easier than you attack hundreds of processes that came up is to attack the common trunk that you bring down the entire tree. I am persecuted for a very clear purpose: to nullify these condemnations and undo the work that was done.
The OAB has opened a process that can prevent mr. to exercise advocacy. How do you see this situation?
The same thing happened with former minister Joaquim Barbosa when he left the Supreme after the trial of the monthly. I am sure that by doing a technical analysis of what is in the file, they can assess that this is not true.
Some prominent lawyers were reached by the decision of E $ Quema S. This decision was ratified by Minister Edson Fachin and PGR. It was revoked by majority. All good. My decision may not have been the best, but it was not abusive.
The background problem that was discussed in E $ Quema S, which is the irregular performance of offices linked to, it seems that it continues to happen. This is a problem that Brazil is following and was attacked in front of the operation.
Was this case what weighed the most for punishment?
He was. This case reached people I was subordinate. What they mean is that I was too bold. I was bold? Yes. Because those who are in accordance with the law have nothing to fear. If I am acting within the law, I have to be bold. There is no fearful judge. There is manipulated judge. If a judge does not have the courage to make a decision that displeases his superiors, he does not deserve to use toga. It is a civil servant.
Some counselors saw this courage more like an abuse.
I heard it at the trial. I didn’t see abuse. I am supported by the law.
X-ray
Marcelo Bretas, 54, has been a federal judge since 1997. Born in Nilópolis (RJ), graduated from the Faculty of Law of UFRJ and made a master’s degree in Justice and Human Rights at the Catholic University of Petrópolis. He was a prosecutor in 1996. He assumed Operation Lava Jato from Rio de Janeiro in 2015 and was responsible for issuing arrest orders against former President Michel Temer, former governor Sérgio Cabral, businessmen and doleiros. He was compulsorily retired by the CNJ (National Council of Justice) for irregularities in conducting the proceedings.
