Leader of the government and a close name to the president (), the senator (PT-BA) claims that he “slipped” him by being nominated for the (Supreme Federal Court) and says that whoever “armed the opposing team” knew well the score of defeat.
In an interview with SheetWagner says that the issue was “poorly handled” by the president of the House, (-AP), and his favorite to the STF, the senator (PSB-MG). “The prerogative to nominate belongs to the president. It’s one thing to negotiate, another thing to impose”, he states.
The senator admits having heard Lula’s idea, but says he doesn’t know if the decision has already been made. Wagner states that the president and Alcolumbre must rebuild their relationship: “No one is going to be an angry boy all the time.”
Does the president want to nominate Messias to the STF again?
He mentioned that, I don’t know if he decided. He commented to more people: ‘I’m thinking’. But I don’t know if it’s still thinking about the outcome or if it’s something elaborate.
Mr. Did you hear that comment?
I heard.
A this year.
Yes, that would be up for vote next year. There are those who say —because every regulation has an interpretation— that this is not the case, but I don’t think it’s worth getting into that discussion.
Does the president want to reinforce that the nomination to the STF is his prerogative or prevent speculation about the new chosen one?
I would say that the first hypothesis is more logical than the second. The Senate slipped in institutionality. What is the point of the Sabbath? [Avaliar] notorious legal knowledge and unblemished reputation. No one questioned this in relation to the Messiah. Objectively, I had no reason to defeat him. In my calculation, we would have 41 to 43 votes. I think there was one in the 48, 72 hours [antes da votação]to defeat. There was , which in my opinion was not well conducted. The prerogative to nominate belongs to the president. It’s one thing to negotiate, another thing to impose.
Who was the Pacheco issue not handled well? By Lula?
No. For them. He is David. The president invites Rodrigo to be [candidato a] governor of Minas, is not unimportant. I even said to them: do you want to go there and say that you decline the invitation, but do you want another invitation, to the STF? The account does not close.
Would the new appointment only be after the election?
I don’t think he stopped to make that assessment. He still hasn’t had his meeting with Davi after the defeat. I think they will talk again. No one is going to be an angry boy all the time.
Do you agree with insisting on the Messiah?
I don’t give an opinion before the president’s decision. Do you want me to lose my job? People think I rule Lula’s head. It’s stupidity. I think that, after everything that has happened in the president’s life, these choices are his personal choices. When there was this discussion about Rodrigo, I heard an interesting comment: ‘Haven’t you realized yet that he is using people who worked with him, who he knows deeply?’.
But isn’t the criterion of loyalty to him questionable?
Does anyone do it differently?
He and Dilma Rousseff did things a little differently in past governments, didn’t they? They appointed ministers who were not as close to the government.
Yes, we take it in our heads in some cases. Will Lula nominate an opponent? Or believe in this unfeasible dream that there is someone above good and evil? There is no such thing. It is a process of criminalization of politics.
The government’s vote map indicated, in the worst case scenario, only the 41 needed. Wasn’t it risky?
Remember that no one was so wide in victory. I said that, if the dispute was with Lula, it could be done in projects that interest the government. When you transpose it to something that is the president’s prerogative, you defeat this one and he will choose another. Obviously there was betrayal. What did they win? Nothing.
He had 34 votes. The government’s map was wrong.
It wasn’t wrong, a lot of people lied. I’m not looking for those who cheated because I can do a tremendous injustice. Who knows, this account is the one who set up the opposing team.
Who armed the opposing team?
Oh, I don’t know. Lots of people. When I got on the stand, David didn’t say ”? We lost by 7.
Part of the government and the militancy accused you of treason and blamed you for the defeat. Did that upset you?
I only owe satisfaction to one person, Lula. Apparently he didn’t put it in my account, otherwise he would have gotten me out of here. There are many people who love, instead of looking for a solution, looking for someone to blame. I’m used to it, but obviously I don’t like it. I’m worried now about the electoral process and that won’t affect anything. It may even have had a positive impact. ‘Stupid what they did.’ Life is not a straight line.
Does Lula want to get back together with Alcolumbre?
There was no declaration of war between the two, but there is an uneasiness. Lula is experienced enough, I believe Davi is too, to know that the presidents of the Republic and the Senate cannot not be speaking to each other.
Is there a chance that the relationship will go back to the way it was before Messiah was appointed?
Lula is not one to hold grudges. He has a much more important project than a private fight with anyone.
STF minister André Mendonça, rapporteur of the Master case, was one of the . Mr. Do you think the fear of the two teaming up contributed to the rejection?
I don’t think, from what I know of André Mendonça, that he’s going to do a reactive business. The Master case is thorny for anyone along the way. Finished with []who said he didn’t know the guy [Daniel Vorcaro, antigo dono do banco]. Had it with the []which is also just research for now. But I didn’t have any conversations with André. I didn’t talk to anyone, because they also said that they were against it. If anyone had to get involved in this, it was President Lula, who also didn’t get involved at all. He made the recommendation and trusted that people would respect it. I was also pointing my account at him.
Mr. Are you on the path to Master?
I’m not in the way, I’m very comfortable with it. I’ve already explained it ten times. Now, the other side, as there is nothing to explain, [fica dizendo]. See what happened to Flávio. He didn’t know the guy, so he asked for R$134 million. Then it was. Things will appear. Regarding PT in Bahia, we had a problem [no governo do estado] which was a state-owned supermarket chain, with a shopping card that was inside it. We privatize. We went to the São Paulo Stock Exchange twice, but it was empty. From then on, you have the right to make a public call in Bahia. Augusto Lima appeared, who already worked with benefit cards, unions, etc., together with a Spaniard, and they decided to buy. Vorcaro comes into this after the sale. I never spoke to him about Cesta do Povo, ever. I never spoke to him.
Mr. Is it related to Augusto Lima?
I met him when selling the business. I talked to him several times, and we ended up having a relationship. He is a Bahian who interacts with a lot of people, with João Roma [presidente do PL-BA e ex-ministro de Bolsonaro]with and with me. There’s the [o Master declarou ter pago R$ 12 milhões à empresa da nora de Wagner, que afirma ter prestado serviços regulares ao banco]. When my daughter-in-law did business with the bank, it was during the Bolsonaro government. I certainly wasn’t the one who intervened.
Mr. Didn’t know about the contract?
Of course not, I never knew. They are of age, they live their lives.
Atlas research showed that . Do you think his candidacy will collapse?
I like to say that I don’t pick opposing teams. I think it will enter the downward trend, but, in my opinion, unless this thing grows a lot, it will not fall into the ‘fanatic’ block. [em referência ao grupo de eleitores fieis ao bolsonarismo].
X-RAY | Jacques Wagner, 75
Senator for PT, he is leader of the government in the Senate. He was Minister of Labor and Institutional Relations in the Lula government, Minister of Defense and Civil Affairs in the Dilma Rousseff government, and governor of Bahia.
