In the past, I was with Robin Kvapil (director of the current documentary, ed.) On the island of Lesbos in Greece in a refugee camp because we wanted to get the orphans to the Czech Republic. And that was what the film was making.
In the concept of a big patriotic film, I thought he wanted to convince misinformers, but I told him it didn’t make sense. Of course, he explained to me, and I started taking it with my wife, who supported me.
You mentioned that you consulted your wife with your wife. She was afraid?
It was a really dangerous situation, I had to consult my loved ones. It must be said that our families have suffered it, both Robin’s and my wife.
In Ukraine we had to turn off the phones, we had Ukrainian SIM cards. It was difficult to communicate with our loved ones. My wife didn’t sleep for many nights, she suffered enough.
How many days have you been to Ukraine?
With the entire expedition of about two weeks.
There are several strong scenes in the film, but in many, the scene has been resonant when you are one of the actors, Iv, that they explained that the rape of children or women is not right. But he defended it that the soldier might not live to see the next day and therefore he wants to enjoy. How did you perceive this confrontation as a psychiatrist?
We tried not to push the main actors, but some of their opinions were difficult not to comment. It wasn’t that we wanted to convince them, but sometimes I was shocked. They were truly authentic in saying things they said as they thought.
They also had separate cameras with them, creating a version for themselves. The Lord you remember is the person you would not have disagreed with in your personal life, but you wouldn’t want to associate with him.
I am a psychiatrist and at the same time I do psychotherapy and specialize in children. So from the perspective of mental defects, I think it was very interesting how they defended themselves to admit what they denied.
Have you been afraid of those people?
Sometimes I was afraid of them. I do not want to talk about it too detailed, but we had to rely that we all protect each other’s back – for example, by using Czech SIM cards. We felt that we could die at any time because bombs fell, and you have near someone who works with the enemy and is at risk.
In the film you are portrayed as a silent passenger. What word did you have? Have you often heard, or were you rather part of the debates among the participants?
We had evening meetings where three protagonists could participate in the crew. The purpose was to ventilate the pressure. I tried not to comment on it and protect Ukrainian respondents from confrontation and inappropriate questions that could somehow hurt them. Our protagonists were often non -empathic.
A few weeks ago, the main protagonist of the documentary Petra published a video in which she claimed that she played her character. According to her, documentary films are played. You, as a psychiatrist, can get to know a person’s personality, you can judge whether one is playing something. So how was it?
It is best not to comment. What should I say about it? It’s a lie. I am not here to discuss it, but to understand it. People who spread lies will spread them further. It fits into her personality. We treated them very well and correctly. They couldn’t have a feeling of manipulation.
In your opinion, someone from the protagonists played something?
Nobody played anything. They could say to their cameras what they want (the director gave them their own cameras, note ed.). They had no reason to play something. When they played something in front of themselves, I don’t know. It was really authentic, because there was no scenario, the director did not direct it. Basically, he just captured what was happening. This is a whole film that is very reflected in what was happening there.
Does the film and the moods of Czech society reflect in general?
The film participants certainly represented a part of the company that believes in misinformation and spreads them. Also, some people live in conspiracy, hate, or feel persecuted and deceived.
The film is also about the fact that such people live among us and are potentially dangerous. On the one hand, they are manipulated, and on the other hand, they can be bad. And in a situation where I think we are threatening war – not in Slovakia, but because Slovakia will not defend itself through Fico, Fico will expect Putin – we cannot afford not to be cautious of Russia. We cannot underestimate it because the Russians win a hybrid war. And this is a precision of a real war.
Who, from your psychiatrist’s point of view, is more of a disinformation? In the film A great patriotic trip It is rather lonely people.
Most of them feel unsuccessful in some way. I think there is a role of addiction, distrust, childhood relationships. It’s also about trauma. People are most affected by what they experience in childhood. And they are influenced by the people they live with on whom they are dependent, so it is not even the truth, but it is more of emotions. Then they fulfill their emotional need, define themselves, which leads to contempt for those who think something else. It has deep psychological reasons, primary emotions, not facts.
Is it dangerous when politicians use them to vote?
In a situation where there is a political interest to make violence, then people are really hidden weapon.
Even one of the protagonists publicly admits that he would help Putin. It is a phenomenon that was also under the Slovak state. When the conditions for violence and it is approved by their moral authority, part of society is able to commit such atrocities without any remorse. This is now. People are currently even more manipulative through social networks than in the past. Pressure on humans is something that works.
Some people completely lack empathy. And those who have it often lose it when they only perceive each other as a problem. It’s hard to feel compassion with someone who is different from us. Unfortunately, the Russians are masters in how to deceive people like this. And if there was a change in the regime, I am afraid we would be surprised how many people would join the worse side.
Do you perceive the Czech society as escalated so much that you are afraid of the possibilities of an incident similar to that in May 2024 in Slovakia in attacking Robert Fico?
This was a unique incident of a disturbed person. The tension in Czech society is much smaller than in Slovakia. In the Czech Republic, the mood is not so, people are much happier, they do not solve factual problems every day.
There are also areas where there are more frustrated people. And, of course, they will vote for populists, but I don’t think there is so much hatred and hostility with us. How it turns out after the elections is a question.
The Czech Republic now lives pre -election meetings and recently there has been an attack of the crutch of an older man on Andrej Babiš, which was also mentioned in Slovakia. Can you even empathize with a person who is so frustrated that he decides to act like this? Of course, it is necessary to condemn it, but how to understand this?
I do not want to analyze it at all from the perspective of society. I wonder how politicians can abuse it. I don’t even want to comment on Andrej Babiš, but in general when someone spreads hatred,notIt really can find a recipient that corresponds to hatred. You cannot expect that when you divide society, it will be calm. Society’s distribution is fed by hatred and addiction.
On people who believe misinformation, it often works depending on that they feel that the other one is better. They feel wrong because they’re not good. When he plays for this politician, he can get cheap points, but it can also return that society can disintegrate.
Can you convince people by the movie when you failed to change your view of your three actors?
Robin was a bit of a hoping for it. We would all be happy if people really believed what they see. And this is not only in the case of war, but in general, because you live better with people who are in contact with reality. And there are people who defend the reality for their own reasons, and they don’t even know why they’re defending themselves.
I think it didn’t move significantly, but at least one film participant did something internally. At such moments, you have to defend yourself even more, because you often do not believe in the fact. Usually you choose what you want to believe – not because it is true, but because you need something that makes sense to protect you from depression, fear, gives you the feeling that you belong somewhere, they love you or that your idea of justice, even if it includes violence, is justified.
The more reality is on you, the stronger it will hit you when you see soldiers without hands or legs, it will impress you and you can cry. Paradoxically, often the one who shouts the most, that it is different, can be the one who has to protect himself the most and refuses to admit the truth.
Director Kvapil mentioned that he did not include a scene in which you visited soldiers in the hospital who lost their limbs.
There are many materials, we have experienced things that did not get into the film because they were in the car, could not be seen because it was dark. Nothing was cut to make it a truly credible picture of what it was like.
I assume that in private life you do not meet people who have completely different opinions. Did you answer your internal questions in this document?
I have been a psychoanalytic therapist, I have been in therapy for children and adults for over 25 years. It wasn’t surprising for me, I didn’t know anything new professionally, rather I confirmed some things.
You can’t know anyone perfectly, even if he was in therapy for three years. A large part of what we do and what attitudes we have is motivated unconsciously. This is called unconscious imagination. I do not think you can see people, but they can help them when they are in therapy.
Behind the distorted seeing reality is some suffering mostly in childhood. In order for a person to be treated, he needs to admit that he is suffering. And if he doesn’t admit it, he doesn’t seek the help, it can’t be imposed. If someone wants to impose that it is different, he will strengthen the defense because he knows he would not bear the truth.
It is naive to think that there is a formula that can be understood by these people. They can help them as long as they want. But not by convincing them, but it can be a relationship – either therapeutic or human. It’s not just that you meet once a month. The more people are isolated, they can be hateful and confirmed that everything is different than others think.
How is the Czech Republic in terms of ensuring psychological assistance? There is a big problem in Slovakia – to hear it not only from people, but also from the Ministry of Health, we have a lack of child psychiatrists. It is very difficult to get to help, and then it often leads to people solving their problems in a different way.
I train, write books, now I get a book about adolescence. I also train children’s therapists in Slovakia. In general, there are no psychiatrists, but rather good therapists, especially the children. This is a big mistake, then there are things that are really bad for children and adolescents.
How do you perceive the step of Slovak psychiatrists, among them Péter Hunčík and Anton Horetik, who signed an open letter calling for Prime Minister Robert Fico to resign?
I signed it too. We also have conscience and we can draw attention to some things, because we are aware of the danger of individuals that affect the whole society.
As my friend Fedor Gál says, we have to fight, now there is no time for intellectual debates, also because the war is around the corner, we need to actively fight evil as much as possible. Also, by telling a relative with whom you do not share the same view that if he wants, you can talk about it.
Do you need to communicate with people who have a different opinion?
Everyone has the right to reject the other, ideally not to respond to aggression. And if someone is interested in communication, let’s take it seriously, and let’s not attack. This is not the case with everyone because there are people among us who want to be bad.
If someone challenges Russian aggression in Ukraine and claims that it is only the killing of the bander, it is meaningful to argue with such a person?
They must be told that you don’t think so. If it threatens you, threatens, it is violent, then the discussion makes no sense.
