Oleksandra Matviichuk, Premio Nobel de la Paz en 2022directs the Center for Civil Liberties, an organization that has been documenting Russian attacks on civilians and against infrastructure such as homes, schools, hospitals, churches and museums, in addition to torture, forced deportations of children, looting, rape, murder and the repression of the Ukrainian language and culture in the occupied territories. Matviichuk, one of the most prominent voices defending Ukraine’s right to resist and defend himself, has also found opposition to those who demand an immediate end to the war. In Barcelona to participate in a conference at the CIDOB, Matviichuk speaks with EL PERIÓDICO.
With the documentation of war crimes, are we closer to seeing Putin sitting in the dock?
Putin is primarily responsible for the atrocities we document. There are no guarantees that he or the top brass will end up in court, but we are doing everything we can. Russia has turned terror against civilians into a tool of war. We have to break this circle of impunity so that there is justice and to prevent new attacks. We have learned that the future is not only uncertain: it is not written either. When this full-scale war began, many believed that Ukraine would fall in three days. The humanitarian organizations left. They left us alone. It was ordinary people who rescued survivors from the rubble and brought aid to the front lines. And here we are, four years later, resisting.
You have defended the creation of a special court to prosecute Putin, do you think that can still happen?
We are working on it. In June, the Council of Europe took a historic step by announcing a special court for the crime of aggression. There is only one precedent: Nuremberg. Other courts tried war crimes, but not the act of starting a war. Nuremberg established that aggression is illegal, but also left the idea that justice depends on who wins. Today we must break with that. Justice is not a privilege, but a human right. That’s why we can’t wait. And since I’m here, I want to ask: when will Spain join that court and support our fight for justice? I haven’t received a response yet, but I hope to see it soon.
You have been very critical of the peace negotiations, why?
These peace negotiations have completely failed in their human dimension. Politicians talk about minerals, about geopolitical interests, but they don’t talk about people, it is absurd. Politicians, especially US negotiators, talk about the occupied territories as if they were empty spaces, but they are not. Millions of Ukrainians live there. The most active people in the communities, such as mayors, teachers, journalists, priests, environmentalists, face extermination. You have to resist.
Some fear that the war will lengthen and cause more deaths, how do you respond?
True pacifism is raising your voice against the aggressor and demanding that he stop the war; because this war would end if Russia stopped attacking. It’s not knowing how to make Putin stop and instead asking Ukrainians to stop defending themselves. And I’m sorry, but that wouldn’t be peace. It would be occupation: torture, rape, disappearances, theft of children and denial of our identity. We do not accept that fate because we want to exist. Because Putin openly says that there is no Ukrainian nation
Oleksandra Matviichuk, Nobel Peace Prize 2022 and director of the Center for Civil Liberties, in Barcelona / Jordi Otix / EPC
What would a just peace for Ukraine look like?
It’s a good question. When people have not experienced something like this, they tend to think that peace is simply when armies stop fighting. But peace is not just that. Peace means the freedom to live without fear of violence and have a long-term perspective for your children.
And are ordinary people still firm in their resistance or is impatience growing for an immediate peace?
We have no choice. If we stop resisting and Putin occupies all of Ukraine, we will cease to exist. In a genocidal war, it is not necessary to kill an entire people to destroy it, it is enough to impose another identity on it by force. If we fail to force Putin to stop this war and ensure sustainable peace, ceasing to resist would mean ceasing to exist.
Would it be acceptable to give up occupied territory to achieve peace?
No, because this war is not just about territories. Putin did not launch a full-scale invasion to grab a chunk of rural Ukrainian territory. Putin is not crazy. On the contrary, he is very pragmatic. Their goal is to subdue and destroy all of Ukraine, and continue advancing. Ukraine is a bridge to Europe. Their plan is to attack the next European country, because they want to restore the Russian empire by force.
“People in Spain are safe only because the Ukrainians continue to prevent the Russian Army from advancing”
Do you consider it a real risk that Russian troops enter the EU?
Putin despises all of you. He believes that they are weak and ineffective, that they cannot defend themselves because in Spain and other European countries there are already four generations that have inherited their democracy and their security from their grandparents, and they do not know how to fight. And that leads to a very simple conclusion: people in Spain, in France, in Germany and in other European countries are safe only because the Ukrainians continue to prevent the Russian Army from advancing and attacking the next European country. More than territory is at stake.
Can this argument penetrate countries like Spain, far from Ukraine?
It should, because modern war no longer understands borders. It is not just a trench war, but also drones, sabotage, propaganda and hybrid attacks capable of paralyzing infrastructure and seriously damaging an economy with cheap means. A Russian drone costing just 1,000 euros can paralyze the El Prat airport and cause millions of dollars in damage to the Spanish economy. It already happened in Copenhagen, Munich, Estonia and Poland. This war has already crossed the borders of the European Union.
So, do you think that the involvement of the US and Europe in the peace negotiations is a positive thing?
Of course. We want peace. We do not want to repeat the history of when, in the last century, European countries decided to hand over Czechoslovakia to Hitler thinking that at least they would be safe. It was a very important lesson in understanding that we live in a deeply interconnected world and that only the expansion of freedom makes our world safer.
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