You mentioned that settler violence is more intense today. Why do you think it has become so radicalized? Is it related to Benjamin Netanyahu’s rhetoric or is the reason elsewhere?
In fact, the essence itself has not changed much. The idea of getting rid of the Palestinians has been here since the very beginning.
The difference is that they didn’t talk about it openly before. Today, with the right-wing government, everything is on the surface. They openly say that they want to wipe out the Palestinians from this country and take it for their own.
Both the police and the army are working together today to get rid of the Palestinians. Palestinians have no protection from any side. The Palestinian Authority does not protect them when they are attacked, and the Israeli army does not protect them from settler attacks either.
We are thus exposed to settler violence without any protection. Settlers act with impunity and it is very dangerous. It has increased the number of attacks and fundamentally changed our daily lives.
But not our understanding of the situation. We have known for a very long time that this was their goal.
You describe a very devastating situation in Palestine and the West Bank. You also often talk about sadness. I wonder if there are small, ordinary things that can still bring you joy today.
Palestinians have been subjected to these difficult conditions for a very long time. We have learned to live our lives despite all these difficulties.
Theatrical performances are still being played. A contemporary dance festival will take place next month. Movies are shown. There are weddings, celebrations and cafes are full of people.
Palestinians have learned to try to live an ordinary life even in very difficult conditions. Don’t stop. Don’t give up.
Even today, things that happened before are happening here. And I consider that a very positive feature of our life.
Your book is calledWalks through Palestine and shows the beauty of your country. Is there a place in Palestine that you would show people in Europe or the West to better understand the Palestinian story? A place that is a symbol of Palestine for you?
Yes. It’s not described in the book because that one deals with the countryside, while this is an urban setting. It is the old city of Hebron. It is a very old and beautiful city that has existed for centuries.
Settlers gradually took control of its center. There are not many of them, but they still managed to make the life of other residents so difficult that the old town is almost empty today. The lives of Palestinians there were practically destroyed.
A few settlers managed to destroy the life of the city, where more than 120,000 Palestinians live. They think they will eventually take over the whole city.
To me, this is a symbol of Israel’s attempt to take over something that they can never really fully control. They cannot control a city as big as Hebron.
In the coming days, European leaders will decide whether to support sanctions against Israeli settlers. You mentioned that in both the United States and Europe you see some change, among people rather than among politicians. Isn’t this awakening too late?
It’s late, but at least it’s happening. I always realized that it would take a long time to get where we wanted to go. Look at South Africa. The people of the world were against apartheid for many years, but nothing changed for a long time. Only when government policies changed and the United States stopped supporting apartheid did the change come very quickly.
I think it will be similar in this case. Pressure from below will gradually increase and eventually lead to a change in political decisions. And when the attitude of governments changes, the results will be much better.
You also lived in Lebanon. Today, tensions are rising there again. Aren’t you afraid that the world’s attention will shift from Gaza to Lebanon and Gaza will be left behind? Or do you think it will open people’s eyes and better understand the bigger picture of what Israel is doing?
Unless Israel recognizes the Palestinians’ right to self-determination, it will have to fight constantly. On all borders and in all wars. It will become a state that will be seen more and more as an outcast because it will constantly wage wars. This can only change when it recognizes the Palestinian right to self-determination.
And that’s what we see today. Israel is fighting on many fronts, not achieving peace and creating nothing but more anger towards itself in the world.
I would like to join your writing. Your work is strongly political and you won the Orwell Prize for it. What role do you think political literature plays today? Can it change anything in the world?
I used to think that one book could change everything. Later I realized that books change the world, but slowly. If they are good, they live a very long time. Their effect does not appear immediately, but gradually. The most important thing is that the book works through the human mind.
The reader experiences the story, becomes a part of it, and the story becomes a part of himself. Therefore, quality literary books are very different from other types of writing and from other media.
Even if you see a great movie, it affects you a lot, but after a while its effect weakens. However, a good book stays with a person for a very long time and can bring real change. That’s why I believe in books. I believe in literature. Its influence is strong but slow. We just have to give her time.
How important do you think it is for literary festivals and cultural events today to be more open to political topics, such as Palestine? I remember discussions in Berlin or Prague, where the participation of some guests caused protests.
I think the problem is that whenever a Palestinian is invited, the organizers feel they have to invite someone from the opposite party to oppose him. I don’t think that’s right. Different voices should be heard, but it should not be about mechanically creating some kind of balance. Not everything is a matter of balance.
During your life, you also had long-term friendships with Israelis. Has there ever been a moment when an Israeli changed your perspective or gave you hope that mutual understanding is possible?
Meetings with Israelis are very rare today because they are not allowed to come to our areas and it is also very difficult for us to move around Israel.
That’s part of the problem. Palestinians in the West Bank and Israelis practically do not meet today. For a long time, Israel has been promoting a policy of dividing space with walls and checkpoints. It creates the impression that entering the Palestinian territories is very dangerous for Israelis.
This had a very negative impact. These Palestinians know Israelis mainly as soldiers or settlers, which naturally creates a very negative image. Even Israelis hardly meet Palestinians today. Even in Israel itself, these contacts are much rarer than they once were.
When I meet an Israeli today, the question that always crosses my mind is whether he was in any way involved in the genocide in Gaza. It is very difficult to imagine that a person who was part of such a terrible chapter of history is now standing in front of me.
That’s exactly what I wanted to ask. After all that is happening in Gaza, is it still possible, despite the pain, to see people on the Israeli side who do not support war or genocide?
I am always aware that there are people who do not support genocide and who actively opposed it. However, these people are suffering a lot in Israel today. They are discriminated against, face harassment and pressure. They also suffer because the people they belong to have done something terrible, and they themselves bear the consequences of being part of that society.
I feel so much for them. That’s why I always remind myself that I have to distinguish between individual Israelis and I can’t blame everyone for the genocide. This is very important.
Early elections in Israel are approaching. Do you feel that the Palestinians still have some hope in them, or is there more frustration that, regardless of the result, nothing fundamental will change?
There is not much expectation because, as you said, the situation is not likely to improve significantly even after the elections. In Israel today, there is no real opposition to the current direction of the country.
However, it would be a definite improvement if people like Ben Gvir and Smotrich, who very openly advocated violence against Palestinians, supported the torture of prisoners, worsened prison conditions and expanded settlements, were no longer part of the government. Their impact on the lives of Palestinians in the West Bank would be less, and that would be a positive change.
However, I do not think that Israel’s overall strategy will change. At the same time, over the years, we have watched Israel change from within. This process continues. The right weakens democracy, freedom of the press and the position of the Supreme Court, which is increasingly under attack.
It is a tragedy for Israel itself. I don’t think the election will fundamentally change this trend.
Last question. Do you see a difference between the older and younger generations of Palestinians in how they think about the future of Palestine?
Yes. The older generation has experience with Israel from different periods. The situation changed over the years and was not always the same. However, the younger generation knows Israel only as a state that commits genocide, uses violence against Palestinians and seeks to ethnically cleanse them. That is a fundamental difference.
You have to realize that the experience of my generation is not the experience of today’s young generation. They cannot have the same experiences or the same hopes.
However, I think that Israel will not be destroyed and neither will the Palestinians. The end result will be two nations living side by side in the territories of Palestine and Israel, who will have to find a way to live together in peace and security.
It will be a long process. Until then, we still have a lot of suffering ahead of us. Much will depend on whether the world will give us support and whether Israel will be able to continue its efforts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians.
