The former Minister of Justice and Foreign Affairs of Israel, also a former Mossad agent in the 80s, Tzipi Livni (Tel Aviv, 66 years old) and former deputy prime minister, has lived countless lives. A decade ago she was still considered the most powerful woman in her country (after former Prime Minister Golda Meir in the 1970s) and was on the verge of becoming Israeli Prime Minister, before Binyamin Netanyahu took the position from her. In addition, she has been chief negotiator in two rounds of talks with the Palestinian authorities: the first, in 2007-2008, with Ehud Olmert as prime minister; and the second, in an initiative promoted by Barack Obama between 2013 and 2014, under the Netanyahu government.
After that period, he retired from active political life, but has now returned to the public sphere with the outbreak of the latest conflict, once again positioning himself as one of the main voices opposed to the current Israeli Government. So much so that some believe that she could even run again as a candidate in the next Israeli elections, which she neither confirms nor denies, as she defended in this interview with EL PERIÓDICO.
How important do you consider the presence of women in diplomacy, especially in war contexts?
That was my personal reason for entering politics; I wanted to resolve the conflict. I was the last peace negotiator in the last two rounds of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. So this is something I personally believe in, and I also think it’s something Israel needs. Furthermore, I think that, in the face of different conflicts in the world, especially now, when in some way world powers are replacing diplomacy, it is even more important to have women in power for various reasons. The first is that men tend to see conflicts as “I need to win, I need a victory”, while all conflict resolution is based on compromise. […] and what I discovered in my years in politics is that when women negotiate, they leave their egos out of the negotiating room. The second is that women listen more to understand, not only the position of the other party, but also why that party insists on certain aspects; From there they try to solve. When you understand that, it does not mean that you accept it, but that you have the basis to offer a different solution.
Here Livni delves into a reflection on the need for the Israeli authorities to work with “with the moderates on the Palestinian side, with the legitimate Palestinian Authority,” she says. “We know that they are not perfect, but they represent the national conflict and the national conflict can be solved, while the religious conflict, on both sides, cannot be solved,” he argues. However, “that was not Netanyahu’s strategy. He weakened the Palestinian Authority,” he denounces.
After the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian lives lost, it is perhaps appropriate to ask what would have happened if there had been more women in positions of power in Israel and Palestine in this latter period.
I’m not sure we can say with certainty that for that reason alone things would have been different. However, I think having more women in charge would have meant [una estrategia] not focused solely on military force. I have supported military actions against Hamas in the past, but I have always tried to find ways to resolve the conflict also through diplomacy. And another aspect: from the first day of the start of the war, I have always asked: “What do we do the day after?” And yet, we wasted months until Trump presented a plan. This happened because Netanyahu said he wanted an absolute victory. “Victory, victory,” he repeated. The reality is that Hamas may be defeated, but that does not change the situation on the ground. If you want to bring peace between Palestinians and Israelis, a different plan is needed.
Indeed, even in the Israeli negotiating team that agreed to the last ceasefire with Hamas there was not a single woman. What do you think about this?
That when decisions are made about war or military operations, there always have to be women. And I would like to explain why.
Forward.
When I joined the Israeli cabinet, I was the only woman at the table. And most of the Israeli ministers were former generals, they came from the army, you understand?, from high ranks, and then they had jumped into politics and there they were, with a place at the table. Their perspective was very narrow because they always offered military solutions, that is, solutions that they presented as solutions but that were not, that had a perspective with many limits. That’s why I think you can ask them what they think, but you always have to ask them questions. What does ‘win’ mean? That’s what I asked them: ‘please explain to me… What does ‘victory’ mean? How are we going to work with the international community to see that Hamas is replaced by another organization? What is the place of the Palestinian Authority? Security is much more than military operations, so I would never give that to just a group of men and especially just to former generals. More comprehensive points of view are required.
But this does not seem to be the trend. A recent investigation of Israel Democracy Institute points out that Israel has experienced an unprecedented exclusion of women from decision-making forums in recent years. Do you see it that way too…?
(Interrupts) Yes, of course! This is a fact.
How did we get to this situation then?
It is an issue that is also connected with religious parties [que integran la coalición de Netanyahu]in which there is no presence of any woman. In the past, we had made progress, there were women in cabinets and now this has been restricted […] We talked before about women and peace, but today we live in a world in which peace is perceived as a weakness and war is associated with power. […] But talking about peace, about diplomacy, is not being weak, it is the way to resolve conflicts.
Now that you are talking about Israeli religious parties, it is impossible to forget that you were not elected prime minister of Israel also because of your confrontation with these formations.
That’s right, she was the leader of the largest party and Netanyahu had one less seat. But he had already agreed with the extreme right and the ultra-Orthodox before the elections. I found out that later, but we are still like this today, so if you ask if I was also rejected for being a woman… it is possible. What I later discovered is that he already had that agreement made. And he has kept them close for 14 years and is willing to make any concession. And that’s the problem. Israel was born as a Jewish and democratic state, but when you have in your own government ultra-Orthodox who are against the equality of women and LGBTI people and an extreme right that is against equality with the Arabs, then this government acts against what I believe are the basic values of Israel.
The paradox is that Israel did have very powerful women in charge, some also controversial, like Golda Meir.
Yes, there has been a deterioration[en la presencia de mujeres en Israel]in the last ten years; As I said before, there are fewer women in politics.[…]Why is this relevant? Also because women in power not only send a clear message, but also, to the extent possible, those women often take concrete actions that help empower other women working in other sectors.
Some tiny spaces still resist, for example, those of the pacifist association Women Wage Peace and its sister organization, Women of the Sunwhich bring together Israeli and Palestinian women. Is it a small ray of light in this context?
Yes, I am close to some of them, and I think they are wonderful. They come out to demonstrate, even in very dark times, when people in Israel do not want or do not think about peace. You have to be brave.
What do you think of the upcoming election for the UN Secretary General? Is it time for a woman?
Definitely. And it is very important. As I said before, especially now, when multilateralism is being replaced by the “my country first” (my country first) and “my country above others”, we need to change and we need a woman to end this. The United Nations was established on the basis of understanding, shared values, alliances, and it is essential to maintain this.[…]We’ve talked about this in previous rounds as well, but I think now is the time. That is why we need a woman at the head of the UN to end ‘my country first’.
In your opinion, are there concrete possibilities that we will have a woman as Secretary General of the UN?
Don’t know; The world is changing as we speak.[…]So I don’t really know what the possibilities are, but I support it and hope for it.
The last question, will he return to active politics?
For me, politics is not about seeking power. For me, politics is focusing on what I can do through politics to promote what I believe in. Politics is for that. If I knew I could have enough political power to make the change Israel needs, that would be one thing. But for now it doesn’t seem to be that way. In any case, I have already spoken publicly again about what I believe.
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