For Andrei Rodrigues, 55, who since January 2023 has held the position of Director General of, much of the success of-which resulted in and seven other defendants in September-it was due to the use of digital tools.
Cited as one of those possible by the government, he says in an interview with Sheetthat the moment of attempted interference in Brazil “must pass” and that “Brazilian squeaks” abroad will not intimidate the PF.
Andrei is in Lisbon to participate, this Friday (3), of the 2nd Future Forum of Taxation-where will speak, among other things, about the use of police activity. The PF director will also find some of his colleagues in the Portuguese police forces.
He spoke with the report at the headquarters of FIBE (Brazil-Europe’s Integration Forum), promoter of the event.
The Federal Police were responsible for investigating the coup acts that culminated in the conviction of the former president. Are you afraid of a reprisal on the part of those, such as the one with the decree of the magnitsky law?
When the constitutional and legal mission is fulfilled clearly, safely and firmly, we know that they are doing what is correct. So this is a moment that will pass, from another country to think it can intervene in internal matters of Brazil. Or believing that they will threaten or intimidate and that they will make us stop fulfilling our role. So, on the contrary, I think the more you have such a reaction, it’s more energy that we have to put to face organized crime.
Part of your speech here in Lisbon will be about the use of technology in police activity. Where was the technology used in the investigation of scammer acts?
The extraction of cellular equipment, from notebooks that we seize, as well as documents that are all digitized and transferred into our systems. On January 8 we used many issues of expertise, human identification, collection of biological traces, which allowed us to identify several of the people who were there that day. We use science, we use technology, but we also use the essentials, our soul, our professional, who has to have this training, this preparation.
Could you give a concrete example? In previous interviews you cited the plan to kill the president, deputy and minister Alexandre de Moraes as one of the main evidence obtained by police against Bolsonaro. The plan, however, was on a printed sheet …
This example you quote is still technology. After someone prints something and takes the document away, it apparently dies. But then our teams redeem data, the printer login details, file name details that were printed and then, in reverse exercise, identify the origin of these files, the computer from which those documents came out.
In telephone geolocation analysis – all with breach of authorized confidentiality, obviously, by the court – we identified that the person whose login was in the printer was also with his cell phone inside the Planalto Palace.
The investigation was criticized for being excessively based on the delation of the aide of orders.
Before the denunciation come the security cameras, and then you see the radio base stations that this person leaves the Planalto Palace and goes to the Alvorada Palace. To this, yes, the assistant of orders, which says that on such a meeting there was a meeting. And so a proof is close.
It is not enough just the denunciation, there was all this chain that even produced a test. The four ministers of the Supreme – and even Minister Fux, who even condemned two of the investigated – very vehement about the quality and exuberance of the evidence. That’s why I am very happy to see the result of a technical, serious, scientific, research work.
How has technology changed the investigation of financial crimes?
If there is a market that has changed a lot was that of the financial system, with fintechs and cryptocurrencies. Police have to react proportionally. In the famous robbery of the headquarters of Fortaleza in 2005, the robbers excavated a tunnel, and it was months to recover one hundred and so many millions at that time. Today, with a computer and a good internet network, it deflects $ 1 billion with two or three clicks.
Does this mean that, besides the method, has changed the scale of crimes?
Twenty years before our management, they were seized in PF operations between R $ 600 million and 700 million. Last year we seized $ 6.5 billion. Only in this last money laundering operation using fintechs we block $ 1.5 billion in backgrounds.
Could explain how the technology was used in Operation Hidden Carbon [realizada pelo Ministério Público e pela Receita Federal no mesmo dia da Operação Tank, da PF, também contra o PCC]?
I cannot reveal details, but I think an essential pillar of research work is cooperation and integration with other agencies. In this concrete case we had a very intense partnership with what, doing his inspection work, identified anomalies that were presented to us, so that we did our part of criminal investigation.
Then we identified an intricate heritage scheme, using fintechs, where several layers of protection are created, a background that owns another fund, which owns a third fund, whose partners are a company, an offshore that is in another fiscal paradise, and thus trying to conceal and lose ownership of these values. We managed to unravel these layers a little and identify the people behind this scheme.
Knowing how to use databases today one of the main attributions of a federal policeman?
For you to get an idea, the Federal Police today have around 49,000 police inquiries. All are digital. The Brazilian Federal Police no longer has a role. Neither in administrative processes nor in investigative processes. And that forms a large database. You can imagine the amount of testimonials, information, material seizures, data extraction and equipment. And all of this is available to our researcher – that you need to use technology, use your ability, to extract from there the information you need to take the course we need.
