He is secretary to Tarcísio de Freitas, was an advisor to Paulo Guedes, vice-governor to Geraldo Alckmin and minister to Dilma Rousseff –
The chameleon-like trajectory, according to him, has had a stable line, the defense of small business owners and the reduction of bureaucracy, since he became director of the São Paulo Commercial Association, exactly 50 years ago.
Constituent deputy and he is launching “Together We Will Come There” (publisher Matrix, 152 pages, R$ 51), a memoir whose title is the slogan of which for a brief period was the sensation.
In the work, Afif recalls political conversations with presenter Silvio Santos, the birth of the centrão in the 1980s and the first electoral campaigns in the company of a
For him, Brazilians are against extremism, which opens up the possibility of a centrist candidate in the election. Afif sees Lula as the favorite because he has the machine in hand, but considers Flávio Bolsonaro (PL) competitive.
“Lula has a very strong power to manipulate the masses. And with the machine in hand, it’s not to be ignored. But the machine is making smoke. There’s a whole fiscal crisis”, he states.
The book launch takes place this Wednesday (25th) from 6:30 pm, at Livraria da Travessa in Shopping Iguatemi, in São Paulo.
In the book, Mr. defines himself as a centrist radical. Is there still room for the center in Brazil?
Brazil’s tendency is centrist. Brazilians don’t like extremes. In the middle of the last century, you had at least two structures that supported the center. One was Juscelino’s party. And the most radical side, the UDN, which was right-wing, but defended the Petrobras monopoly. It was always bipartisanship at the center, not extreme multipartyism.
But today it seems like not anymore, right?
Today there is radicalization. On one side to the right, on the other to the left. And I think there’s a space there in the center. Whether it will be filled or not, just place the product on the shelf.
Can you get an idea of how big this space is?
Just look at 30% on one side, 30% on the other, the rest is neither one nor the other. He is expressive.
In these 50 years of public life, another flag that you have raised is that of liberalism. For a long time, defending it in Brazil meant preaching in the desert. Is there a more fertile field today?
I am liberal. I chose a practically unanimous aspect, which was the defense of economic democracy, without which political democracy would not exist. Through the small. The little one is in the capitalist regime. He applies his principles and is a victim of State centralism, which is there to benefit those around him. The liberalism that I preached is that of economic democracy, of having a market regime without favoritism, so that there can be competitiveness. When I created Simples, it was to be able to give competitiveness to this little thing that was massacred by the state bureaucracy, which to this day we still can’t get rid of.
Has it been possible to infuse a bit of liberalism into Brazilians in recent decades?
Today you notice an important movement. When I created MEI [Microempreendedor Individual]was to formalize the informal economy. Today MEI is the expression of those who are on their own, who I call fighters. Those who will decide this election will be women, who are ball girls, hairdressers, manicurists, this type of profession that is not ideological. What she wants is freedom, credit, paying less tax. They’re not exactly leftist flags.
Mr. participated in. What stands out most compared to today?
It was a communication campaign, not a machine one. Even starting with 0.5%, there is room for something new. I read a lot of marketing stuff, and one that caught my attention was that they talked about [sandália] Melissa. The person who played Melissa was [empresa] Grendene, or Melissa made Grendene? I mean, does the product make the factory, or does the factory make the product? The factory was the big parties, PMDB, PFL, each had their names. I said, it won’t be. It will be a product. And it will be about communication. I thought, all the products out there are out of market specification. It’s not what the consumer wants.
In that campaign, at a certain point, Mr. it was the feeling.
I wasn’t invited to the ball, I was an outsider. When I grew up, what happened? I started to grow on Collor. We were the same renewal profile. It dropped from 43% to 28% and I went up to 14%. And then the red light came on in the system. Afif arrived in the middle class. And then, I had to take it off.
Mr. reports having been one of the first to talk to Silvio Santos in that election.
I needed to have a strong vice. “I’m going to give you my program, you read it. If you’re interested, tell me.” And, after about 15 days, we spoke again. The book was there, everything was written down, he read it line by line. I asked, “Are you okay? [ser vice]”. He replied: “I agree, [e perguntou] why not the other way around? I [Silvio] presidential candidate and you [Afif] vice”. I said “I’ll think about it”. And then I left and never came back.
Today Mr. is with a Bolsonarian governor [Tarcísio]was once and minister of a PT member [Dilma Rousseff]. Some say that Mr. had a chameleon-like trajectory.
Everything we achieved in 40 years of the children’s movement, I achieved unanimously. There was even Lula’s own position, agreeing with me, in the Constituent Assembly. I have never had any obstacles wherever I have gone, due to the coherence of a line of defense for the little ones, without which political democracy does not exist. Whoever opened the door, whoever my son kisses my mouth sweetens. I got along very well with Dilma.
Mr. He says in the book that he regrets her impeachment.
Yes. She was an upright woman. I am a witness to this, I am not afraid to say it.
What is Lula’s strongest point and what is his greatest vulnerability?
He has no reason to be coherent. He may have one opinion today, tomorrow another completely different one, but put it in such a way that people applaud. And with a machine in hand, it’s not to be taken lightly. But the machine is making smoke. There is a whole fiscal crisis, you have to know when it comes.
And Flávio?
I’m going to talk about the franchise [Bolsonaro]which penetrated the population with a speech about tradition, family, everything. He gets the conservative. It has very positive points that have been denied all along. They say it’s a cursed inheritance. No. Paulo Guedes did a wonderful job, he paid off, because he was also taken to the bush, but he managed to keep the horse on the trail. There is a very positive legacy he left behind that has now been destroyed, which is the imbalance in the accounts.
Mr. Do you see Lula as the favorite?
I see. He has the machine. Bolsonaro lost that election. It wasn’t Lula who won. He [Bolsonaro] He had the machine in his hand and did a lot of stupid things.
different from his father. Can this work?
You have a fixed Bolsonarism that is with him. Talking nonsense or not talking nonsense, it’s together. He has 20%, 21%, and he has to win twice as much. And Lula will have to win over another part with another speech. Sovereignty is strong. But he ended up getting lost in the [Daniel] Vorcaro of life.
Should Tarcísio have been the candidate for president?
No. We have a lot to deliver in a second administration. Tarcísio doesn’t plant cabbage, he plants oak, he doesn’t want to harvest it the next time. These are structural projects that he is doing in mobility, transport, moving the headquarters to the center, on the Intercidades Train. He has to complete this cycle, which also completes his political maturity.
And then would he be ready for 2030 to be president?
Yes, he will be a very real candidate for president and he will be very well prepared. These four years are spent preparing to be a candidate.
Does Haddad’s candidacy threaten re-election?
Election and mining, only after the investigation. will now pay the price for the cursed inheritance he is leaving. Just look at what happened with the tax increase. This will weigh a lot. Haddad will not perform as well as he did in the other election.
Mr. In the book, he tells a curious passage from the 89 campaign, Mr. and Kassab traveling the country with a phone record. After decades of coexistence, like Mr. would you define Kassab?
Kassab started with me. I was president of the Commercial Association and created a group of young entrepreneurs. He was introduced to me by his uncle, who was somewhat of a relative of my father, and he told me that his nephew liked politics. This was in 1983. He arrived with bottle-bottom glasses, nerdy style. We worked and he showed pleasure. When I needed to set up the PL, in 1985, he came to help me. The presidential election [de 1989] It was his graduation, he went state by state to talk to the leaders at the time. Then it never stopped.
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GUILHERME AFIF DOMINGOS, 82
He is special secretary for Strategic Projects for the State of São Paulo. He was deputy governor (2011-14), minister of Micro and Small Business (2013-15), president of Sebrae (2015-19), federal Constituent deputy (1987-89). He has a degree in administration from the Faculty of Economics of Colégio São Luís
